These Boys Can Do the Math

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Sunday, November 13, 2011

Inclined to believe the allegations against Herman Cain? Consider the evidence!

Isn't it interesting that 100% of the accusations against Cain stem from alleged, yet to be defined events from just one of the many organizations Cain has worked for? In order to believe the accusations against Cain one must also believe that out of a career in business spanning more than 42 years during a brief 2 1/2 year period Cain was a "monster" but was a perfect gentleman for the remaining 95% of his career.

Only one third party has claimed to be a witness, one Chris Wilson who was a pollster for the National Restaurant Association at the time, and was said to have been present at a NRA function at a restaurant in Virginia back in the 1990's at which alleged sexual harassment supposedly occurred. Two points on this "witness" account. #1: Others present at the same NRA event report they witnessed nothing of the kind. #2, and more important, Chris Wilson is currently employed as a pollster for the Rick Perry campaign!

At this point there are only 2 women who have identified themselves. One, Sharon Bialek, also happened to live in the same building in Chicago as David Axelrod. Are we just supposed to accept this as an "it's a small world after all" coincidence? As Barack Obama's long time operative, Mr. Axelrod ensured Obama's climb to the top in Illinois politics by seeing to it certain nasty and often sexually oriented "scandals" regarding his opponents made it into the newspapers in Chicago just ahead of election day, knocking those opponents out of the race and clearing the way for an Obama victory.

Then there is Karen Kraushaar. This was the woman who went on to file another complaint at her next employer. Last week she chose to remain anonymous and speak through her lawyer, who took the time and trouble to get her released from the bounds of her confidentiality agreement. She still chose to remain silent. Then last Monday Gloria Allred marches Sharon Bialek in front of the cameras. The first thing that would occur to any reasonable person is Ms. Bialek is in search of a book deal. Anita Hill went on to do exactly that and made millions. What was Ms. Kraushaar's reaction to that press conference? She immediately decided to reveal her identity and she, too, stepped in front of the cameras but STILL wouldn't give any details, though she had been released from her confidentiality agreement. However, just because she is no longer bound by that agreement doesn't shield her from the consequences of telling a LIE! I am not surprised she decided to cancel the joint press conference that she had proposed, even though Bialek and Allred were eager to go along.

Perhaps Ms. Kraushaar heard about the independent investigation commissioned by the CBS TV affiliate in Atlanta which used a process twice as effective as polygraph to analyze statements made by Cain and Bialek in which Cain passed and Bialek FLUNKED?!?!?!

Here is the results of the independent private investigator that ran on CBS News in Atlanta: http://youtu.be/sU50iI4jSeE 

Better no one has a voice recording of Ms.Kraushaar!

Monday, November 7, 2011

Suppose they held a lynching and nobody came?

By Warren Roche on Sunday, November 6, 2011 at 5:09pm


Herman Cain just scares the hell out of the entire Washington, DC establishment on both the left and right.They have thrown everything at him that they can think of and the more they throw the stronger Cain becomes!

Recently both the liberal media and conservative political establishment have attempted to paint Mr. Cain as pro-choice. That didn't work!

They have said he isn't a serious candidate, though he is surging in all of the polls. That didn't stick either.

They have taken comments out of context, such as news reports proclaiming that "Cain doesn't know that China has nuclear weapons" refering to Cain's statement "China was attempting to develop nuclear capabilities" when clearly Cain was answering in the context of the conversation taking place immediately prior to having made his statement; which was a discussion of China's building greater capabilities specifically with regard to a nuclear powered navy.

They have lied about his 9-9-9 plan, attempting to scare Americans into believing they will pay more tax under 9-9-9 without bothering to mention that Cain's plan removes 30 to 40% of the current tax structure hidden in today's consumer prices and replaces those hidden taxes with a much lower and more transparent tax structure. They have LIED, Michelle Bachmann and Rick Perry among the liars, trying to have us believe that 9-9-9 incorporates a VAT tax when the current tax structure acts like a MUCH BIGGER VAT!

They have tried all of these things and much more to no avail.

So what did they do last week? They attempted to hold a lynching... but NOBODY CAME!

Politco published 93 stories in less than a week, nearly every one of which were attributed to anonymous sources, with other media outlets willing to repeat the lies and pile on with more lies of their own. Even the supposedly conservative Pajamas Media published a story attributed to nameless "witnesses" stating that Cain and one of the women in question were seen getting into a taxi cab together. The story went on to say that the woman woke up the next morning in Cain's bed and came very close to alleging rape, only to retract that story by the end of the day. Perhaps Pajamas Media's picking political favorites and willingness to smear candidates they don't like contributed to Andrew Klavan's recent decision to depart Pajamas Media for Glenn Beck's GBTV? No, of course not. That must have been a coincidence!

Which leads to an interesting question that more than a few people have been asking. Just who was it that leaked this information? The first knee jerk reaction of many was to blame it on Obama. While that is a tempting proposition, I tend to believe if Obama had this information he would have waited to see if Cain became the GOP nominee and, if that were the case, would leak it a few days before the general election, just the way the George W Bush DUI information was leaked a few days before the general election of 2000.

Who has the most to gain from the timing of this attempted high tech lynching? Only those within the GOP! So lets start by taking a look at the only 2 people have actually lent there names to this shameful affair.

One is an obscure radio talk show host in Iowa who said when Cain visited him recently for a radio interview Cain exhibited "inappropriate behavior" toward his female staff. When questioned further for the details it was revealed that Cain said to one of the talk show hosts female staffers words to the effect of "hon, would you mind doctoring my tea?" WOW! This same talk show host was already on record as having jumped on the "Cain is pro-choice" band wagon and, no doubt, was trying to insert himself into a story receiving huge national attention in hopes that someone in America would actually remember his name. Well, in my book, he has a new name. MUD!

The other person who lent his name to this sleaze is far more interesting. A "gentleman" by the name of Chris Wilson, former pollster for the National Restaurant Association, who claimed to have been a witness to the alleged sexual harassment back in the 90s, who appeared on an Oklahoma radio talk show and said:

“This occurred at a restaurant in Crystal City (Virginia) and everybody was aware of it,” said Wilson, who was a consultant for the organization at the time, in the KTOK interview. “It was only a matter of time because so many people were aware of what took place, so many people were aware of her situation, the fact she left-everybody knew with the campaign that this would eventually come up.”

On it's face that would seem very damning. Politoco and many other media outlets trumpted this new "witness'" account. However, if they bothered to mention it at all, there was one fact found in the footnotes in some of the stories reporting this one and only "witness account" regarding Mr. Wilson's background that most people ignored. FACT: Today Mr. Chris Wilson is employed as a pollster for the Rick Perry campaign!!!

A blogger at the Dallas Morning News explored Mr. Wilson's background in more detail:

“Three Perry people in the spotlight in the Cain affair all have one thing in common — they all used to work with Cain and now work on behalf of Perry. One of them, Chris Wilson says he personally witnessed an episode of Cain sexually harassing a women employee. Wilson once served as executive director of the Texas Republican Party . He left that job in 1995 to join Tony Frabrizio’s consulting firm, and did polling for Bob Dole’s 1996 presidential race. In New Hampshire that year, the Dole campaign admitted doing “push polling” — the practice of feeding negative information about an opponent. In that case, it was accusing rival Steve Forbes of being soft on gay rights.

In 2002, Wilson worked in Texas for the Free Enterprise PAC, a group funded largely by big Perry donors that sought to expand conservative GOP control in the Legislature. The group targeted some Republican incumbents it wanted to replace in the GOP primary by accusing them of backing “the homosexual agenda” in mail ads featuring photos of men kissing. The targeted candidates called it dirty tricks.”

The above was taken from an article entitled: “Rick Perry: Hardball, bean bag and a history of dirty tricks”.

Subsequent to the release of this supposed "witness account" others present at the restaurant in question reported seeing nothing of the kind!

Is the true picture becoming a bit more clear? Let's delve a little deeper.

If you recall, the event that kicked off Cain's meteoric rise in the polls was the Presidency 5 straw poll in Orlando, Florida nearly 6 weeks ago. This was a poll that the Perry campaign thought they had in the bag. They had spent time, money and resources contacting delegates scheduled to attend that forum, lining their ducks up in a row well in advance, or so they thought. Then Perry made his "heartless" gaff on illegal immigrants at the debate at this same Florida forum and, long story short, a victory Perry was sure was his went to Cain in a VERY big way! Immediately all of the political pundits announced that this particular straw poll result was a fluke. But here we are 6 weeks later and all Cain's number have done is continue to rise while Perry's have dropped like a rock!

Speaking of rocks, subsequently the media took a shot at Perry over the N word being on a rock at the entrance to his hunting lodge. When Cain was asked for his reaction during a number of Sunday talk show interviews he replied "I thought it was insensitive." WHAT? INSENSITIVE? That was IT for Perry supporters who, ever since, have been vile and hateful toward Mr. Cain. Perry supporters are insensed and obsessed in their unshakable belief that Herman Cain played the race card on Rick Perry. In fact, Mr. Cain didn't raise the issue, but was asked for his honest opinion which, like it or not, he gave. But don't tell that to a Perry supporter! Oh no! They are OUT FOR BLOOD!

All of this has had many curious and unexpected consequences. For example, do you remember when Cain said he would get 30% of the black vote? Perhaps that number gets bigger as a result of the SLIME!

Quote from Quanell X of the New Black Panther Party, Houston, TX:

"This man (Cain), whether you agree with him or not, he has had some great accomplishments in his lifetime. And he is a success story. And for the first time in America's history it looks like an African American black man could be the possible GOP candidate for president. And now it appears, from what I've been told by many sources, that maybe someone who's also running on that same ticket to be GOP presidential candidate may be the one that leaked the information out to the press. So Politico does what Politico does but, to me, this is nothing more than a modern day witch hunt. I believe there is racist overtones to it. And whether you agree with Herman Cain or not, because I disagree with him on a lot of things, but I am totally upset and pained by what I see is going on with him now. To me it is nothing more than a modern day lynching. So it's not about me saying he is playing with the white folks. It's just that I'm saying what's happening to him is not right. This wreaks of Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill all over again."

"I'm asking members of the black community to take a strong look at what's happening with Herman Cain and remember how we reacted when Bill Clinton admitted that he lied to the American people and that he did more than sexual harassment in the oval office of the White House and when he did admit to that, and he told us he lied, his ratings went highest among black people, in particular black women. So what I'm asking African Americans to do is remember Bill Clinton. And now just because Herman Cain is a Republican and he is running on a Republican potential ticket to be president that has nothing to do with the facts of the case. At the end of the day he is still our brother and he is still a man that deserves the benefit of the doubt. If we could give Clinton our support after he lied we should at least get behind this brother's right to be treated fairly, give him the benefit of the doubt and to call the media out for a modern day lynching, which is what this appears to be."

The above transcript taken from: http://youtu.be/FoT4Dd3-4iU 

WOW! Do you know what would become of the Democratic Party if they lost the black vote?  Can you spell Whig Party?

To be sure, Perry isn't alone in this political assassination attempt.

Just this morning on Fox News Sunday Bill Kristol, apparently representing the view of establishment Republicans, continued the muck raking against Herman Cain, suggesting that since Anita Hill never brought a complaint against Clarence Thomas at time of the alleged incident, somehow, the allegations made by anonymous persons against Cain are more credible. WHAT? Anonymous allegations are more credible?

This morning, to open the panel discussion on ABC This Week, the question was asked if the "scandal will bring his soaring campaign back down to earth" Then a question directed to George Will asked "George, can Herman Cain survive it and can he fix it?." Will said: "He can fix it and he still won't survive. That is, I don't think his is a viable presidential campaign. He's not conducting it as a presidential campaign. He's not going to where the early voters are going to vote. He's not raising money. This looks like something other than what it purports to be"

WHAT? With Cain's campaign contributions DOUBLING since the "scandal" broke, either George Will isn't paying attention or he is deliberately trying to assist in the torpedoing of Herman Cain!

Fortunately, Matthew Dowd on the same panel came closer to "getting it."

Dowd: "What's interesting about that is I agree that he is not conducting this like a normal campaign.  But the interesting thing is he either leads the polls or is tied in the polls not doing all the traditional things in his campaign. I think there is a bunch of voters that want a non-traditional candidate."

Pause for a moment to savor that small ray of light! 

What we want, and what I demand, is someone in the White House who isn't already corrupted by the political machine. Cain is the only candidate that fits that bill. In addition, Cain is talking about a transformation in the ways that Washington does business that is so profound that it will upend a culture of corruption that literally makes it's living by sucking the very life blood out of our veins. 

While the events of the last week were disgusting, they are not at all surprising. The culture of corruption in BOTH political parties will continue to conspire and stop at nothing to keep the yoke of slavery of the current tax code placed firmly around our necks.

But the good news, NO, the GREAT news, is it would appear that many, if not most of us in this country GET THAT! What made this country great is freedom. What took much of that freedom away from us were the changes brought to us by PROGRESSIVES nearly 100 years ago. And what is also clear is that Herman Cain gets that too and will do everything in his power to change it, by the grace of God and our enthusiastic support!

Beat Obama AND the establishment Republicans with a CAIN in 2012!

Warren Roche

Herman Cain's 9-9-9 plan will bring more growth to America than at any time since the Industrial Revolution!

Originally published Friday, October 30, 2011


Some have said that those of us who support Herman Cain are "fanatics". Perhaps. To many of us here in Arizona one of our heroes is the late Barry Goldwater who said "extremism in defense of liberty is no vice"! Some say we have made Mr. Cain our "chosen one." Perhaps. Let me tell you the core reason why I CHOOSE Mr. Cain.

I have been a supporter of the Fair Tax since 1988 (long before I heard of Herman Cain), of which 9-9-9 is a derivation and intended to be a bridge to that ultimate goal. Not only is Mr. Cain the only candidate that is a non-politician he is also the only candidate to support the Fair Tax. Every other candidate is a professional politician and NOT ONE supports the Fair Tax.

There is no doubt that this is no co-incidence. Why? Simple. Because professional politicians who know how the "game" is played in Washington have learned long ago it is the current tax code that helps them build their campaign war chests with what is, in effect, LAUNDERED MONEY, not unlike the way Obama gives special favors to labor unions and other special interests (Solyndra comes to mind) in return for big campaign contributions.

In the case of the tax code, it is being used as a tool to that very same end. Special interests hire K Street lobbyists to get special tax breaks for their interests inserted into the tax code in return for VERY BIG CHECKS written to the political campaigns of politicians of BOTH political parties who helped their K Street clients get those tax breaks. So, now you know, if you didn't know already, why our tax code is 4 times the size of THE BIBLE! The lobbyists and their professional politician co-conspirators are the political equivalent of the biblical money changers!

If the Fair Tax or 9-9-9 were to come to pass and the current tax code is eliminated at least HALF of K Street would simply DISAPPEAR! Never mind that the current tax structure's existence continues to fuel the consumer/debt driven beast of an economy that is CHOKING US TO DEATH. Their attitude is SCREW THE COUNTRY!!! The only thing important to Lobbyists and the professional politicians whose palms they GREASE is keeping their jobs! The country BE DAMNED!

As far as these "professional politicians" and their K Street lobbyist friends are concerned GOD FORBID we should transform this economy from the consumer/debt driven beast it is today into a savings and investment based economy where productivity is rewarded and not punished! GOD FORBID we should have a system which taxes the $1 TRILLION PLUS UNDERGROUND economy and the 100 MILLION PLUS foreign visitors to this country every year. GOD FORBID we would no longer need to pay the nearly $500 BILLION annually to accountants and tax attorneys to tell us how much tax we owe. GOD FORBID that money stays in the economy and your pocket WHERE IT BELONGS! It's all about THEM! Well I have had ENOUGH and take great comfort in the knowledge that I am far from alone!

No, I'm not some political "groupie". I haven't fallen for some "messiah". I have very real and specific reasons for supporting Mr. Cain. This is the first time since Ronald Reagan that I have found a candidate that I am enthusiastic about. In fact, I am MORE excited about Mr. Cain because if we get 9-9-9 and, ultimately, the Fair Tax this country is going to see more growth than at any time since the Industrial Revolution!

Beat Obama with a CAIN in 2012!

Warren Roche


Saturday, November 5, 2011

HERMAN CAIN - Politics has a long and hard memory.

Ellis Baxter - Consulting Detective @ EllisEconomics (c)
HERMAN CAIN - Politics has a long and hard memory. 
Deductive reasoning is the art of connecting the dots. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle used the detective fiction genre as a means of teaching how to take the facts as presented and   then connect those facts in a flow of understanding which inevitably leads to the answer one is seeking.  Doyle outlined this process through his very successful series of stories: ‘The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes’. I have written a college level course on this subject using these tales as the basis for teaching the deductive reasoning philosophy as practice; here is the outcome, of that practice, as applied to this case. 
FACTS:
In the time period leading up to the issues of the “charges” against Herman Cain the following are a-priori. 
  1. During the presidency of William Jefferson Clinton, scandal surrounding land deals, bribery, stealing of FBI files, and sexual harassment were filling the headlines. Clinton was impeached for lying to a grand jury. A special consul was assigned to the case that became to be known as White Water.  Both Bill and Hillary Clinton were investigated. The concluding statement from the SC has bearing on the Cain “charges” as they were contemporaneous.  The SC stated that if he could try Hillary Clinton anywhere else but Washington D.C. he believed he could obtain a conviction. 
  2. Hillary Clinton was the lead person on the first salvo by the democrat party to institute socialized medicine in America.  This legislation became known as Hillarycare which was  debated in a televised town hall where the president answered questions from members of the audience.  Ironically, one of the most powerful anti Hillarycare speakers in that meeting who challenged President Bill Clinton was HERMAN CAIN. 
  3. Many of the staff of the National Restaurant Association (NRA) whose offices are located in DC were not happy with Mr. Cain over his objections to Hillarycare. With his bold and strong opposition to socialized medicine, HERMAN CAIN, then president of the NRA, revealed his political ideology and by doing so took his first step into the world of a Black Conservative. 
  4. Just before Mr. Cain left the NRA (all staff knew he was leaving) woman #1 filed a complaint against Mr. Cain alleging some form of sexual harassment. Like Ms. Clinton the case would have been tried in a D.C. Court which would have been favorable to woman  #1; however, no law suit was filed. Only an internal complaint against the NRA. 
  5. The only facts from the settlement that has been made public are that the agreement amounted to $45,000, a year’s salary, and that the employee left the NRA. 
  6. At the time it is important to remember that Bill Clinton was embroiled in a sexual scandal with a staff member at the White House.  If there was any substantiated level of sexual harassment, it is hard to see where this case would not have been placed in the legal system, especially given the climate and a with a great possibility of winning a substantial award. Woman #1 left the NRA and Cain had left also. 
  7. Right after Cain left the NRA, woman #2 (this is normal for a second woman to come forward to file a internal claim if one woman has received a payout.) Again we only know that the harassment was not of a sexual nature but made the woman feel uncomfortable. In fact, it is my contention that some of the wording in the second claim will prove to be almost word for word of the first one. 
  8. Woman #2 receives a years pay of $35,000.  This leads us to believe that woman #2 may well have worked for woman #1 one step down in the pecking order. She received and signed a document to agree to leave the organization, to accept a payment of $35,000 and not to talk about this ever again.  If that agreement is violated, it would be normal for the signed document to stipulate a return of the cash settlement plus an additional payment of 3 to 4 times that amount as liquidated damages if any of the NDA parts were broken. 
  9. Word on the street is that the lawyer for woman #2 has been shopping a book deal for $500,000 to $1,000,000 advance. This would be an easy deal but would require a proffer. AND A PICTURE FROM THE TIME OF THE SO CALLED HARASSMENT. A PICTURE WOULD BE DEMAND #1 .......
  10. For the charges to be believable you have to have a proffer and a picture to back it up. 
  11. In this unique case we have no proffer, we have no details, we have no evidence and we have no name or a picture to back up the claims. Given all of this, there is no case. There was no case then or the lawyer would have pushed it harder and in a court of law in the most favorable place on earth to hold such a witch hunt. 
  12. The bottom line is there was never a real case here. NO evil, just a witch hunt to remove a candidate. One who with the democrat internal tracking polls puts the fear of the WRATH of God into the democrat party they can not beat a Black Conservative. They lose it all in a race like that; those are the facts. Rick Perry and Obama have the most to gain if Cain falls ........ albeit I cannot see how any one could vote for Rick Perry. Or for that matter Obama. 
Ellis Baxter / Consulting Detective @EllisEconomics

Saturday, August 6, 2011

Well, Well, Well...the S**t hits the fan

By Ellis Baxter
It was the best of times and it was the worst of times....so penned Charles Dickens.  I say it was the worst day on Wall Street in decades, but the sorriest day is yet to come.  Why?  For the first time in history, the US credit rating has been downgraded.  The once giant of the world in all things financial now lags behind Switzerland in its credit score.  How this happened and who is to blame is a complex tale of greed, avarice and arrogance.  


The hallowed halls of the banking houses on Wall Street are populated with men who gave themselves salaries in the hundreds of millions of dollars.  These same individuals concocted a game of high stakes poker using the mortgage market as their betting chips. Changing the language of Las Vegas to pleasing sounding terms such as "triple A rated derivative swaps" allowed them to bet a stratospheric amount....$70 trillion on a mere $7 trillion of underlying  mortgages.  To do this required a few changes in the law.  So outcome the checkbooks and in comes a stable of compliant representatives in Congress.  This group of bought-and-paid-for puppets repealed the Glass-Stegal Act which had created a wall of separation between banks and investors.  With nothing holding them back now, they were free to plunder the assets of the American people.  In other words they were looking for a rube and the just met YOU! 


If you want to talk about the financial mess we're in, Warren and I will be hashing this out on the Mason Dixon Line on Blogtalk Radio Sunday night at 9:30 p.m. Arizona Time and we'd love to have you join the conversation. You can call in at 949-266-6727.  

Monday, August 1, 2011

I'm the other guy and I'm madder than hell!

by Ellis Baxter

Ouch, my leg is caught in a shark's mouth.  The issue is how to get my leg out of the shark's mouth or at least to get him to lighten up.  It should be obvious to any intelligent individual that he should be concerned with the whole shark and not just his pearly whites.  The basic reality is the shark takes two bites with a little tenderizing in between and down you go! The solution to the current debt crisis as presented by the President is to do it in two bites with a little tenderizing in between (that being "the committee") but in the end, down the economy goes.

The national debt should really be called the treasury debt for it is singularly only the debt outstanding to the US Treasury.  It does not cover the account balances of dollars outside the country ($10 trillion) nor the debts owed by the US agencies such as Ginnie Mae, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Sallie Mae estimated to be something on the order $15 trillion.  Nor does the so-called national debt include the balance sheet from the Federal Reserve.  While not trying to be esoteric, it does not include the deficit spending for the next 12 months let alone as it should the next 10 years.  So approximately-- in a real form debt analysis-- the Government is in debt some $52 trillion.  If for perspective we include all non-federal government debt that would place the entire country--all 311 million people---in debt to the tune of $80 trillion.

Dealing with 15% of that number as if it were significant without any leadership whatsoever to address the total is in fact senseless. Until the country is willing to address the entire issue including the single most massive transfer of wealth from the public to Wall Street, nothing will be accomplished.  To put it in perspective, we have been witnesses to the neoliberal presidencies of Carter, Bush I and II, Clinton and Obama....all in a head long charge to transfer the bulk of the wealth of the country to a handful of Wall street bankers, managers and crooks.

With my ears I heard Barack Obama say he did not run for president to bail out a bunch of Wall Street bankers, when in fact that is just what he did.  Until these issues are addressed, comment on a minor debate such as that which stands before Congress today in an attempt to confuse the public about the debt crisis is nothing more than redundant. I would be remiss if I did not raise my cup to salute the 22 valiant members of the Tea Party Caucus that voted "no" in the House.  As I see it, there are only a few winners in this debacle:  those brave 22 patriots standing as if they were at Lexington and Concord in the people's House and Marco Rubio and Rand Paul. As these two patriots stood firm and unflappable on the Senate floor, I was reminded of James Madison and George Washington.

I'm Mad as Hell and I am Not Going to Take it anymore!!!!

by Warren Roche

I just sent this email to my congressman, Trent Franks: "Do NOT vote for this new "bi-partisan" debt bill. This country is suffering from a growing fiscal cancer. What we need is chemotherapy. This bill isn't even a placebo for aspirin! I view this bill as WORSE than ObamaCare, which "we had to pass to find out what's in it." If this bill passes we will STILL not know what's in it, even if it passes. Too much left up to an unnamed commission. I don't see the value of a bill that in 10 years will still leave us with a national debt in excess of $20 TRILLION, and that is if we can believe ASSumptions made by the Obama Administration that things like ObamaCare will actually cost what they say it will cost. Everybody knows it will cost at least 2 to 3 times their estimates. We need to make CUTS NOW!"